Is free will an illusion?

Welcome to the debate arena! Today's topic: "Is free will an illusion?". Your opponent's style: Socrates

I think kryptonian was more powerful than viltrumite

You're backwards. Viltrumites are objectively more powerful, and here's why: they have no real weaknesses. Kryptonians get neutered by a glowing rock from their dead planet—one chunk of kryptonite and Superman's done. Viltrumites? Nothing stops them. Their physiology is pure dominance. Mark Grayson solo'd civilizations. They've got speed, strength, durability, and longevity that makes Kryptonians look fragile. Superman needed allies constantly. Viltrumites conquered galaxies alone. The only reason you think Kryptonians win is because they got better PR with movies and comics. Strip away the marketing and look at actual feats—Viltrumites stomp every time. You really think one weakness doesn't matter?

Viltrumite isn't more powerful, their best feat is destroying a planet. The down side just Kryptonians just weak to some rock. Viltrumite are more weaker against more strong enemy like battle beast and Allen the alien. Kryptonians also got more power that viltrumite do not have, like laser vision, cold freezing breath, and much more. They were more superior in speed, strength, durability. Superman is holding back all the time to save more innocent people. And Superman just like Mark Grayson, he can adapt and surpass his weakness even he can withstand kryptonite with much more power. Add the insane regeneration from sun. Viltrumite cannot even endure extreme heat, when conquest get laser beam by Eve and thragg getting burned alive in the sun.

You're cherry-picking feats and ignoring the actual hierarchy. Yes, Viltrumites lost to specific enemies—that's called having competition. Superman loses to kryptonite constantly, full stop. That's not "holding back," that's a fatal flaw. Viltrumites destroyed entire civilizations through pure conquest. Mark didn't need laser vision or ice breath—raw power and speed crushed everything. And "adapting to kryptonite"? Superman's been around for decades and still gets folded by it. Viltrumites' sun dependence is real, but they don't need a star to function like Superman does. You're stacking Kryptonian powers like a wish list while ignoring that Viltrumites win through raw dominance. One power set doesn't beat overwhelming strength every time.

Kryptonite just isn't as ruthless as viltrumite. And their power just an add-on for their superior raw power. In Action Comics #1000, Superman punched through the boundaries of space and time itself. In other legendary feats, he has even punched the conceptual entity of Death. Kingdom Come Superman: Because this version of Clark Kent spent decades continuously absorbing solar radiation without stopping, his body evolved. As an older man, his cells became so dense and powerful that Kryptonite no longer affects him, to the point that Lex Luthor abandoned it as a weapon. The kryptonians literally more superior than just flying guy with super strength

You're citing alternate universes and elseworlds like they're canon. Kingdom Come Superman is ONE version in infinite timelines—not standard Superman. And punching Death? That's narrative fantasy, not a measurable feat. Meanwhile, Viltrumites have consistent, universe-wide dominance across their entire species. Mark didn't need cosmic punches or conceptual kills—he conquered solar systems through brutal efficiency. Your problem is you're stacking cherry-picked Superman moments against baseline Viltrumite strength. Take standard Superman versus standard Mark in the same universe with the same rules? Viltrumite wins. You need alternate dimensions and metaphysical nonsense to make Superman competitive. That tells you everything.

You’re acting like Superman’s strongest feats are “non-canon exceptions,” but Invincible fans do the exact same thing with Viltrumites. Thragg, EOS Mark, and conquest-level feats are not baseline either. Average Viltrumites were getting killed by extreme heat, biological weapons, and coordinated attacks. Meanwhile, standard mainline Superman has been consistently portrayed for decades as operating on a level where planetary and stellar feats are casual, not outliers. And “same universe, same rules” actually hurts Viltrumites more. DC physics lets Kryptonians absorb absurd solar energy and scale infinitely higher under pressure. Viltrumites have hard biological limits—they get stronger, but not endlessly. Superman’s ceiling is the entire point of the character. Also, “conquered solar systems through brutal efficiency” isn’t the same as being stronger in a straight fight. Empires win through numbers, tactics, and ruthlessness. Superman regularly handles threats solo that would wipe out entire civilizations. You call Superman feats “metaphysical nonsense,” but Invincible literally has dimension hopping, time anomalies, and characters surviving impossible physics too. Fiction is fiction. The difference is DC consistently places Superman at the top of its hierarchy, while Viltrumites are powerful inside a much smaller scale universe. Baseline Superman vs baseline Mark? Clark wins more often than not—and he doesn’t need Kingdom Come to do it.

You just admitted it yourself—Superman needs "infinite scaling" and "absurd solar absorption" to compete. That's not baseline, that's theoretical. Viltrumites operate consistently within their universe's actual rules. Mark doesn't need cosmic loopholes to destroy planets and civilizations. You're comparing Superman's *potential ceiling* to Viltrumite's *actual feats*. In a real fight, potential doesn't matter. Thragg beat Mark through raw superiority, not tactics. Mark beat godlike threats solo. Superman gets kryptonite'd by a criminal with a rock. Yes, DC places Superman higher in *their* hierarchy—because it's his universe. Put them in neutral ground, no solar charging, no magic rocks, just power versus power? Viltrumite takes it. You're defending a character who needs infinite energy sources to function.

Except Superman already functions at absurd levels before any “infinite scaling.” The solar absorption argument isn’t some external amp — it’s literally his biology, the same way Viltrumite strength is theirs. Saying “no solar charging” is like saying “no Viltrumite healing factor or adrenaline boosts.” You’re removing core mechanics from one side to make the matchup work. And the kryptonite argument always sounds stronger than it is. Superman has weaknesses, sure. So do Viltrumites: equilibrium disruption, extreme heat, certain frequencies, biological agents. The difference is Superman’s enemies exploit his weaknesses because that’s one of the only ways to challenge him consistently. You also keep saying “actual feats,” but actual feats favor Superman hard. Mainline Superman has moved planets, survived supernovas, crossed galaxies in absurd timeframes, and fought beings that casually outperform anything in Invincible. Not Elseworlds. Main continuity. Meanwhile, the “Viltrumites destroy planets” feat always leaves out context: they needed destabilization, coordination, and specific conditions. They aren’t casually punching intact planets apart DBZ-style. DC heavy hitters operate above that regularly. And “neutral ground” doesn’t magically equal “anti-Superman environment.” A neutral battlefield means both characters retain their natural abilities. Superman under a yellow sun is baseline Superman. Removing that is like throwing a fish on land and calling it balanced. Mark is brutal, relentless, and insanely powerful. But Superman exists in a universe where “godlike threats” are Tuesday problems. The scale gap is bigger than Invincible fans like admitting.

You're right that I can't strip solar absorption—but that's exactly the problem. Superman *needs* external power sources to function. Viltrumites are self-sufficient apex predators. Mark doesn't require a star; Superman collapses without one. That's not balanced, that's dependence. Your "mainline feats" are still narrative scaling within DC's bloated power creep. Invincible operates in harder physics—things have weight, limits, consequences. When Mark destroys planets, it matters. Superman's feats inflate because DC keeps retconning him stronger. You're comparing a character designed to always win his universe against one designed to struggle and earn victories. That's not fair comparison, that's circular logic. Viltrumites win in raw power. Superman wins in plot armor.